Healthcare who cares, right?

[Mike P]

I work in healthcare and I am not a clinician (one who actually treats an ailment or delivers some kind of care to a patient), I work in administration. As we look forward in the US, we are in a hot and heavy debate about what we should do around nationalizing our healthcare system. Although this may not be a car problem or an issue, it is realivant. The bailout of GM and Chryler was set-up buy the demands of the workers healthcare costs that saddled the company with much more costs than comprable companies in other areas of the world.

This is an international community and I would like some honest discussions about how things work elsewhere. I feel one our problems is our arragance (imagine the US being arragant) that we always have the best solution. That coupled with the mass misinformation out there around this subject and I feel we have a very volitile situation.

I have been in this field for my entire carreer and would be wiling to answer any questiosn anyone has on how things work (at least my perception and experiences) and how we can change things. I can also enlighten most people on the details that are in these bills present before our government. I also know we have many doctors, nurses, and other healthcare workers that can bring input. We in the US get some information on other systems but I do not trust the media information right now and would like individual experiences from other areas of the world.

I would like to discuss this without emotion and discuss the facts and not the hyperbole that has surrounded this subject. If the mods feel this is in the wrong place please move it.

This is only the begining of the discussions and I will post my opinions later. I am hopeful that we can have civil and enlightening discussions. Thanks to all who participate and I lookforward to the ideas that come from these discussions.

Mike

[Chekov]

You may not get much of a response to your poll because the three choices seem to be skewed to the administration’s position. Most people, including Republicans, want some kind of reform, but not just the two pending bills you listed. How about adding the question, “Other Reforms”? These would include tort reform, allowing purchase of out-of-state insurance, no tax increases, and no government option.

[GiGGaplease]

me being a pre-nursing student, i say we give free healthcare to citizens that are willing to not abuse it. who is to say that an individual cannot get their health taking care of because they cannot afford it? **** insurance companies in general.

people talk about socialism but do they really know what that word means? education, libraries, the police department, etc is socialism; who do you think pay for their salaries? the tax payers. so what difference will universal healthcare make?

[shoebomber]

I say do absa****inlutly nothing with it.

[OMG37]

Originally Posted by GiGGaplease

i say we give free healthcare to citizens that are willing to not abuse it.

Dude, wtf does that even mean? I'm still not sure how I feel about it, but to say give it to those that won't abuse it...you realize what country we live in right? This is the country where people try to buy beer with food stamps. Where we have ppl with their whole family on medicare..but they drive a brand new lexus.

Good luck with determining who will and will not abuse any form of free healthcare.

[GiGGaplease]

Originally Posted by OMG37

Dude, wtf does that even mean? I'm still not sure how I feel about it, but to say give it to those that won't abuse it...you realize what country we live in right? This is the country where people try to buy beer with food stamps. Where we have ppl with their whole family on medicare..but they drive a brand new lexus.

Good luck with determining who will and will not abuse any form of free healthcare.

haha, guess i should have worded it better. give it to people who really needs it and not for people whos just going to abuse it.

[RedG37SNC]

It's an unfortunate fact of human nature that we abuse what's given and take care of what's earned... the best system is one that takes this fact about our imperfect nature into account.

The problem seems to be we have a great many that can't afford good healthcare... the solution in my mnd would be to invest in education and training to help these people get a job where they can then.

Healthcare isn't free, it costs and anyone that says it should be free is really saying that some people should pay for other people that are doing nothing to earn it for themselves. If you believe that why stop there... housing should be free too, what good does it do to have good healthcare when your living on the streets and constantly getting sick because of that...a house should be your god given right as well. No reason to stop there... what about food, food should be free too, not much good to have healthcare and housing if your starving and that will lead to additional healthcare needs... food should be free too!

Now you're probably thinking if we did all this who would work.. yea that would be a problem. I say the government mandate employment for people between 18-35, but at 36 you can retire and live off the government and enjoy the rest of your life fully covered, sheltered and fed..lol. This way we get old entitled cronies out of jobs to make way for fresh meat that's willing to work. Face it the old cronies don't want to be there any more anyway and waiting till 55 to retire is too damn long, you need to be free while you're still somewhat young to enjoy it.

Now at 70 your retirement ends since your funds are probably ending there too and you have forced military duty. Instead of sending our young out, we send out the old.. you just need to push a button for most of the stuff anyway. A lot of the quality of life at 70 has significantly deminished from younger years, not just physically but also in what 70+ years can contribute back to society. Many probably would enjoy the feeling of once again being useful and allowed to go a little wild on the Taliban I'd bet. Can't get a licenses to drive a car.. no problem, here's an M1A2.. you make your own roads.. go that away. Take a look at wild animals.. do they send the cubs out to defend the den.. no it's momma and pappa bear. Don't know about anyone else but I personally would rather go out in a great ball of hellacousness then die in a bed, the chance to do something for my country and family at the same time.. even better. With an army like this where deaths are honored and not as devistating as a parent loosing a child, or a young child loosing a parent our armys would be truely feared and our tolerance for war much greater.

Just some thougths to help solve our really tough problems.

[wireboltman]

Here's a letter I've written which I'll be sending to our local paper this week for the editorial page: (400 word limitation per letter)

In a recent town hall meeting hosted by Bart Stupak, I was appalled at the lack of knowledge demonstrated by so many.
One "commentator” brought some stuff from the internet without checking its veracity.
He said he got it from a Democrat, so it had to be true.
Mr. Stupak quickly pointed out the flagrant errors in what was handed to him.

Of course, healthcare is a right.
There will always be people who work for low paying and minimum wage jobs. There has to be!
They perform vital services that are part of the fabric of life in this country.

There are some that will never be able to advance due to circumstances beyond their control, whether it be a physical infirmity or otherwise. They’ll never be able to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps," a mantra espoused by many who oppose equal healthcare for all, regardless of a person’s income.

They're still hard working Americans, working 40 hrs a week or more, and pulling their weight.
Does anybody really think their family is more important than a family in this position, and has "the right" to better healthcare because you can afford it and they can't??
About 1 out of every 5 full time workers in the US makes $20,000.00 or less per yr. That's poverty level.
They can no more afford adequate healthcare in the present inequitable system than the man in the moon!

The price of every health or pension plan, perks----everything involved in anybody’s salary is passed on to the consumer.
In effect, we all pay for everybody’s health plan, pension plan, etc when we purchase their services.
That can be anything from car insurance to having your grass cut. It's all in there.
The cost of a lawyer or doctor's health, pension, or any other perk that anybody in their office has is included in what they charge for their services.
Unfortunately, those that make minimum wage and have no insurance also have to pay for the “haves” insurance.
The cost of a Whopper at a fast food place still bears the cost of health and pension plans. Maybe not for those down in the trenches, but one or two layers up, you'll find a health plan. It’s all built into the cost of a whopper.

It’s time to level the playing field, and provide adequate and equal healthcare for all legal Americans.

[DrJones]

There are pros and cons all over the place around this..... a solution is not going to be agreed upon any time soon.

[IronGuard]

did you hear about Forbes top 10 happiest places to live in the world? all of them have universal healthcare. fyi, the United States placed 13th on that list.

if the whole point of life is the pursuit of happiness, then maybe we should follow the happiest countries...

[elite]

Fend for yourself and weed out the weak.

[RedG37SNC]

I dated a girl for a short term that had a low paying job and needed some costly dental work and glasses. She was fresh from a divorce, spent most of her life raising kids and working low paying jobs to help the family income. Most of her kids were on their own with the exception of the last, a 15yr old. She had to move back in with her parents and took a low paying job as a part time cashier for money. She didn't have high paying skills but enough experience to get better then a minimum wage job. I tried to help her get there with help on her resume and finding opportunities. On her free time however, she went to the beach, she didn't put applications out, she didn't try to find a better job, she just complained about her situation.

This person would qualify for your healthcare program, but should she?

I imagine there are people that will never progress as you state but I think that number should be very small, and I'm ok with governement helping them on a case by case basis to weed out abusers. The low skilled jobs are great for young people entering the work force and still living at home, not for grown adults with families, ask them if they'd rather be working at a better paying job.. I'd bet most would and more to the fact CAN, they just need help getting there. Besides it won't be too many more years and we'll find many of these jobs automated by androids.

Point two, I worked my early years in one of those jobs, without motivation to get ahead in life I'd probably still be washing dishes. While the road totally sucked, I'm grateful for the experience and enjoy the sense of accomplishment and frankly needed the experince to appreciate, mantain, and continue growing to this day. Were I just placed in my current situation directly in a day from my initial starting point... I wouldn't last a week.

People need to grow and want to grow and some need a kick in the A$$ to grow... I was the later and am grateful for it, I think our system works rather well.