KLB

I had this done after my last oil change at about 19,000 miles. I've been using Mobil 1 for every oil change.

Mike

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for posting!

JonfromCB

Evidence as to why Mobil actually replied to VQ37 owners that their oil was
not recommend for use in the VVEL engines. 2X the aluminum, 3X the iron,
2X the copper, and 2X the tin indicate excessive wear metals. The comment
that "the excessive wear metal is from parts wearing-in" on an engine
with over 19K is nonsense....PERIOD. As for the silicon, recommend
checking and tightening all connections/fasteners on the air intake
system and changing the air filters....it's probably time for new air filters
after 19K anyway. JMHO...I'd consider switching oils soon.

Mike

iTrader: (1)

Jon, you do realize that 15k is the MINIMUM miles for a VQ-HR to break in.

Compound that with a slick synthetic, and it takes even longer. You can't draw conclusions from ONE uoa, especially given that the universal average also has an average engine life significantly higher than the OP's. Most UOA samples from from individuals who drive a lot.

Black Betty

iTrader: (60)

Were can I find Mobil's recommendation to VQ37 owners that Mobil 1 NOT be used in the VVEL engine?

JonfromCB

Mike, let us reason togeather. Please tell me one or more parts that
require 15K to "wear-in" to proper operating tolerances or performance?
You are the only person I've heard say or claim that it takes more
than 15K miles to break-in any vehicle....including Nissan. I would argue
that the only measurable "break-in" occurs between the piston rings
and cylinder walls and either happens very quickly...or for sure
by 5K for the "break-it-in easy drivers."

In regards to oil. It is a myth that synthetic oil molecules are
any more slippery than conventional oil molecules...just not true.
The synthetic molecules form longer "chains" that are considerably
more resistent to shear and visocity "break down" but the coeficient
of drag is esentially a function of visocity rather than base group.
synthetic and conventional oils use the very same types and
similar amounts of friction modifiers, which would not even be
necessary if your argument was correct.

I would hardly say that double and triple the wear metals as compared
to other cars/engines with that number of miles and nearly the
same oil change interval is hardly drawing unevidenced conclusions
from one analysis.....Your remark that I'm making a incorrect conclusion
based on one anaysis is contrary to your claim that synthetic oil is
"slicker" than conventional. You could spend some time looking
at wear metals in other oil analysis with like mileage ...Ford, Toyota,
Hyundai engines using conventional oils at that interval and mileage
and then explain why those engines produce oil analysis at or below
universal averages for wear metals and this engine/oil combination is showing
so high.....your comments don't make sense.
Are you saying that all those other engines using conventional
oils are just built better than the Nissan so they don't shed wear metals????
Or that the conventional oils being used in them are superior? I don't think so.
According to your theory about "synthetic oil slowing down the break-in
process", this analysis should show lower shedding of wear metals....not more!

If you think this is a good oil/engine combination then by all means go ahead and use it.
Will it run? yes Will it last? probably long enough. Is the oil protecting the engine
well compared to other oils and other engine/oil combinations with similar miles? ....NOT AT ALL.

JonfromCB

Black Betty, I personally wrote to Mobil asking them to recommend
a specific oil for the the VAQ37VHR engine and was told " they do not
have a oil they recommend for this application".....however they
went on to tell me that they did have several blends that met the
API "SM" rating and the 5w30 viscosity requirements for the engine.
It was pretty clear to me that they knew exactly what they were
saying to me....you can decide for yourself.

I wish I had kept that email ....but I can tell you that I have
read of similar responses from Mobil to other Nissan owners on
this board and others...should be easy to find...check the"definitie
oil thread" on this board and search "bobistheoilguy" site too.
Or just write to them youself and ask.

Mike

iTrader: (1)

UOA has shown VQ35HR's to take as long as 30k miles before samples stabilize.

Your theories are not backed by the evidence, in this case.

Also, the universal average is per engine, not literally universal.

You have quite a bit of reading to do at the BITOG forums.

Black Betty

iTrader: (60)

Thanks. I'll read more on BITOG.

JonfromCB

Mike, you are a smart guy, I read and respect your posts...we
just disagree about this.

Thanks for the tip on reading more, I'll do that, and I do understand
"universal averages" use in UOAs....that's why I recommed
comparison of other makes/engines using same oil with similar
mileage...I'm sure you understand that.

I'm sure you see plenty of engines with high wear-in metals
at 30K. That does not mean the engines are still breaking-in
...It just means the high amounts of shed wear-in metals
are still in the crankcase! You especially know that many
owners only do minimal maintenance at maximum intervals...
Your example only proves the junk is still in the oil because
the engines have only had three or four oil changes...It does
not prove that the engines are still breaking in.


I'm certainly not "new" or inexperienced in regards
to engines and oil. I've had 23 new cars and 10 new
motorcycles in the last 20 years. I have stopped doing
UOAs because I have learned that regardless of
engine...V6, flat 6, straight 6, V8, Vtwin, straight 4
I have consistently seen stabilization of wear metals
in every engine prior to 10K WITH NO EXCEPTIONS
by doing "hard break-ins" followed by several short
interval OICs...ie 300 miles, 1k, 3k, 5k then go 5-7k
depending on months/miles driven.

You cite a VQ35 as your example of taking 30K miles
to break-in. I can say first hand I personally did
a "hard break'in" of my own M35X with oil changes
at 300, 1K, 3K and switched from conventional
to Rotella T-syn at 5K and got stabilized wear by
10K....one third the time/miles of your example...
and I have gotten similar results over and over.
I'm just sharing my experience....take it or leave it


Since I'm taking your advice and reading more
on "bitog", here's some interesting reading from
there that contriverts your claims...
.http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...38#Post1295538
Note that this example obviously stabilized wear metals PRIOR TO THIS OIL WHICH WAS
PUT IN WAY BEFORE 30k....just sayin'

Mike

iTrader: (1)

My s2k is a great counterexample to your example.

It took roughly 20k for wear levels to stabilize, and I did a hard break-in as well. The first 25k miles or so on the car were exclusively track and canyon miles. The car was in excess of 6000 RPM for 30 minute sessions 4-7 times a day, 2-4 days a month, and was also seeing 2-3 canyon runs a week. The day my car hit 600 miles, the car also saw the fuel cut in 6th gear. Tires varied from RE070 (least stickiest) to NT01 (stickiest), all of which are capable of generating in excess of 1.1G lateral on a flat surface, and a peak of 1.8G at SoW and Cal Speedway. The first 16k were on regular oil.

I have a sample from every oil change done if you'd like to see the trends.

My STI and first s2k had similar trends, although with different driving habits.

I never did any UOA on my G, as it is just a daily driver.


Your example does show low wear, but we also need a virgin sample for comparison. The universal average will always be higher than what a well broken in engine should be at for many reasons: it includes new engines with high amounts of metal, rebuilt engines, extremely-worn engines, unknown additive packages, etc. There are far too many confounding variables.

JonfromCB

Thanks for the reply. Interesting that you got such similar
oil samples from such drastically different scenarios.
I would say the 1st example is "wear metal" rather than
"wear-in metal"...lol.

I agree, there are lots of variables to break-in. The big
question of our conversation is...Can break-in wear,
time/hours be controlled? My answer is arguably yes
it can, and I don't expect anyone who hasn't seen my
results for themselves to agree; but.....
there are many "motorcycle collectors, builders, and
racers who agree with me and swear by
a hard break-in (in fact many new bikes are
run to redline on a assembly line dyno') with several short interval
oil changes. I've been lucky and blessed with many
vehicles and resourses to "investigate" these things for myself.

However, returning to the topic of this thread...
do different oils lubricate a given engine better than
others?....Yes they do. Would I use Mobil 1 in a VQ?
No I would not. There are many UOAs showing much lower wear
metal shedding during and after break-in (however
you want to define break-in) than Mobil 1 provides
in the VQ37VHR engine. In the VQ35 there
are many UOAs showing much less Fe than
Mobil 1 UOAs....enough compared to multiple Mobil 1
virgin analysis that I'm convinced mobil 1
is not the best match with any Nissan...and yes
I have used Mobil 1 in my Infiniti's and No I
don't have any "axe to grind" with Mobil...they make
good products.

Again, there are too many superior results from
other oils providing better results in Nissan motors,
both in early engine samples and after break-in.
The above UAO is just further support of my claim.

Mike

iTrader: (1)

FWIW, I have a friend that builds motors for Yoshimura Suzuki, and they don't do any sort of break-in. The engines are built and then raced, or sold to a client who will then proceed to race.

Vastly different from a car, but I think we can agree that these race engines have a lot more stress on them. They sure as hell aren't using mobil 1

JonfromCB

That's great...I'm laughing so hard I better check my drawers

TreSe7en

iTrader: (2)

So after this all being said, would Mobil 1 still be the best alternative compared to the others (penzoil, royal purple, castrol) at the local automotive shop (autozone,advanced auto parts, etc)?