Ester Oil?

[notalk]

Originally Posted by w0ady

hmm...mobil 1 synthetic is a group iii right?

It's not quite that simple. The ACEA (European Automobile Constructors Association) also grades oils and does so on multiple levels. Not all of the same oil's different viscosities always receive the same ACEA rating. For example, Mobil 1 0W-40 is an ACEA A4 rated oil, while the 5W viscosities of Mobil 1 are A3 rated oils. A3 means high performance/extended drain and is not considered to be as much of a " true performance" oil as A4.

All I'm saying is that there are many issues to be looked at when trying to "value" motor oils.

P.S. While many posters on this and other automobile forums "dis" Mobil 1, it seems interesting that the majority of Indy Car and NASCAR teams run Mobil 1. Yes, the oil gets changed frequently, and the engines are rebuilt frequently. But, if Mobil 1 could not perform under race conditions, would these teams subject their expensive engines to a lesser quality oil? Also, there aren't a lot of oil related DNF's in these series. (Personally, I do not use Mobil 1, so, I am not looking for support for my oil choice. I just find it interesting that so many race teams use Mobil 1 and in a lot of automotive forums its been open season on Mobil 1.)

[Mike]

Originally Posted by w0ady

hmm...mobil 1 synthetic is a group iii right? i blew my 5at g35 motor at 68k miles and infiniti had no explanation. i drive pretty aggressively so it looks like i definitely need to step up to better oil. sounds like i might have to call up sharif for some motul. my plan was a regular oil change at 3k miles, then switching to synthetic at 6k miles with a changeout period of 6k miles. what do you guys think?

A UOA will tell you how long you can safely go on an oil change.

[Black Betty]

Originally Posted by notalk

...But, if Mobil 1 could not perform under race conditions, would these teams subject their expensive engines to a lesser quality oil?

Maybe for huge amounts of sponsorship money???

[Mike]

Originally Posted by notalk

It's not quite that simple. The ACEA (European Automobile Constructors Association) also grades oils and does so on multiple levels. Not all of the same oil's different viscosities always receive the same ACEA rating. For example, Mobil 1 0W-40 is an ACEA A4 rated oil, while the 5W viscosities of Mobil 1 are A3 rated oils. A3 means high performance/extended drain and is not considered to be as much of a " true performance" oil as A4.

All I'm saying is that there are many issues to be looked at when trying to "value" motor oils.

P.S. While many posters on this and other automobile forums "dis" Mobil 1, it seems interesting that the majority of Indy Car and NASCAR teams run Mobil 1. Yes, the oil gets changed frequently, and the engines are rebuilt frequently. But, if Mobil 1 could not perform under race conditions, would these teams subject their expensive engines to a lesser quality oil? Also, there aren't a lot of oil related DNF's in these series. (Personally, I do not use Mobil 1, so, I am not looking for support for my oil choice. I just find it interesting that so many race teams use Mobil 1 and in a lot of automotive forums its been open season on Mobil 1.)

Mobil 1 = massive marketing money.

It's like the V1 vs other radar detectors, or BMW vs Infiniti.

Plus, the oils they use in dedicated race cars is not the same as the formulations for our cars.

[notalk]

Originally Posted by mike@riverside

Mobil 1 = massive marketing money.

It's like the V1 vs other radar detectors, or BMW vs Infiniti.

Plus, the oils they use in dedicated race cars is not the same as the formulations for our cars.

Wow. With all due respect and recognizing you work for an Infiniti dealer, but this post is nothing but assumptions and opinion.

Mobil 1 "sponsors" the Penske Racing 77 car. All other sponsorship dollars are designed to compete with Pennzoil, Valvoline and Castrol sponsorship. No one uses Mobil 1 because they can get paid more money than to use Pennzoil, Valvoline or Castrol.

The oil that goes into IndyCar Honda engines and NASCAR engines is straight off the shelf, comes out of 1 quart bottles just like you can buy at any auto parts store Mobil 1. Usually 0W-40 but sometimes in NASCAR engines 15W-50 (which is a slightly different formulation with a different additive package). The Mobil 1 used in IndyCar and NASCAR engines is exactly the same formulations for your cars.

Your post seems to say that big money always wins. Yet, Pennzoil, as a company after the corporate reformations in the oil/petroleum world of Mobil, Shell, Exxon and Texaco, has more money than Mobil. By your logic, most race cars would use Pennzoil. Yet, they don't. Not necessarily because Mobil 1 is better, but, because Mobil chooses to concentrate on this market. I never said Mobil 1 was better, I was only pointing out that people on this and other forums believe Mobil 1 to be a lesser motor oil than its competitors but people with a lot more money and reputation at stake use it in much more expensive situations.

You referred me to BITOG, which I visit a lot, thank you. On BITOG Pennzoil synthetic is the synthetic of choice, supported by many oil evaluations. Yet, no one mentions it here. On BITOG, Valvoline is rarely mentioned, yet most professional long-time mechanics I know have used Valvoline exclusively for years. The secret, a base standard on BITOG, is frequent oil changes. If a G37 owner changes every 3750 miles, per the owner's manual, pretty much any decent oil, including conventional oil, will provide all the needed lubrication and protection. Since you referred me to BITOG, you should see in post after post that BITOG posters believe the advantage of synthetic to be extended drain intervals, and with shorter drain intervals synthetic is a waste of money.

All I'm saying is that, in response to one comment about Mobil 1, is that not all Mobil 1 viscosities are the same (which makes it more difficult to discuss Mobil 1 in general), and in response to your position that big money always wins, is that does not appear to be the case with oils used in race cars.

[ice350]

You guys had me all confused. SO the main point here is that Infiniti is now using a more expensive oil in the G37 engines than the oil used in the G35....a full synthetic....that's the issue?
I hope not.
You drive a premium car. It deserves the best.
I've always used the best oil and gas even when I drove a Nissan Sentra. Your car is too much an investment to monkey around with.

[Heat]

Putting Premium gas in a Setra is a waste of money. - The oil the Infiniti now recommends is not a full sythentic but rather a knock-off conventional oil with ester additives not ester based. - Yes, premium car should required good oil. - The decision of your oil has more to do with how you drive your car more than anything else. If you drive like a granny, then any quality oil will do. If you drive like me, only the best will do.

[w0ady]

notalk - im sure the mobil 1 infiniti used was 5w30 which like you said is class iii. ive seen the arguments before and shrugged it off because it always treated me well. however, like i said i blew my vq35 motor with 68k miles. there were no recent mods and i drove just as hard as i did for the past 50k miles which includes excessive downshifting. infiniti always did the oil changes at 6k miles so they had no one to blame there. they said it was the oil consumption issues seen on the 6mt due to my downshifting but had to write it off as an oil pump failure (which was fine) due to corporate refusing to back it.

i drive pretty hard and i have no problem spending more $ on oil changes if it means its safer for my car. what im looking for now is a reliable class iv oil that i can run with little interference from infiniti. they have no argument if i use a ester base full synthetic correct?

castrol syntec - heard good things about the german blend but its hard to find
motul 300v - sharifs happy with it so thats good for me
royal purple - never tried it, heard good things

these are just a couple i can think of offhand, any other suggestions/advice from anyone??

also i put a lot of miles on my car, about 20k/year, so i try to avoid excessive changes which is why i go 6k intervals. that should be fine right? maybe ill drop to 5k intervals and switch to synthetic at my first 5k...

[Xcalibur]

Originally Posted by gurneyeagle

Now there seems to be an engine knock problem that Nissan recommends ester oil for @$12 a quart. That to me is total b.s. If there is some type of engine problem, then Nissan needs to fix it, instead of applying a band aid at the owners' expense.

Well said!

I feel the same way! Shame on you Nissan!

That and the crappy clear-coat LOL!

[Mike]

Originally Posted by notalk

Wow. With all due respect and recognizing you work for an Infiniti dealer, but this post is nothing but assumptions and opinion.

Mobil 1 "sponsors" the Penske Racing 77 car. All other sponsorship dollars are designed to compete with Pennzoil, Valvoline and Castrol sponsorship. No one uses Mobil 1 because they can get paid more money than to use Pennzoil, Valvoline or Castrol.

The oil that goes into IndyCar Honda engines and NASCAR engines is straight off the shelf, comes out of 1 quart bottles just like you can buy at any auto parts store Mobil 1. Usually 0W-40 but sometimes in NASCAR engines 15W-50 (which is a slightly different formulation with a different additive package). The Mobil 1 used in IndyCar and NASCAR engines is exactly the same formulations for your cars.

Your post seems to say that big money always wins. Yet, Pennzoil, as a company after the corporate reformations in the oil/petroleum world of Mobil, Shell, Exxon and Texaco, has more money than Mobil. By your logic, most race cars would use Pennzoil. Yet, they don't. Not necessarily because Mobil 1 is better, but, because Mobil chooses to concentrate on this market. I never said Mobil 1 was better, I was only pointing out that people on this and other forums believe Mobil 1 to be a lesser motor oil than its competitors but people with a lot more money and reputation at stake use it in much more expensive situations.

You referred me to BITOG, which I visit a lot, thank you. On BITOG Pennzoil synthetic is the synthetic of choice, supported by many oil evaluations. Yet, no one mentions it here. On BITOG, Valvoline is rarely mentioned, yet most professional long-time mechanics I know have used Valvoline exclusively for years. The secret, a base standard on BITOG, is frequent oil changes. If a G37 owner changes every 3750 miles, per the owner's manual, pretty much any decent oil, including conventional oil, will provide all the needed lubrication and protection. Since you referred me to BITOG, you should see in post after post that BITOG posters believe the advantage of synthetic to be extended drain intervals, and with shorter drain intervals synthetic is a waste of money.

All I'm saying is that, in response to one comment about Mobil 1, is that not all Mobil 1 viscosities are the same (which makes it more difficult to discuss Mobil 1 in general), and in response to your position that big money always wins, is that does not appear to be the case with oils used in race cars.

Quoted straight off the Mobil1 website:

Originally Posted by http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Racing_Oil_FAQs.aspx#FAQs2

Are Mobil 1 Racing oils the exact formulation used by the Formula 1, NASCAR, and Le Mans race teams?
Mobil 1 Racing oils are formulated with the same race-proven, fully synthetic technology used in racing applications around the world. However, typically, Mobil 1 tailors our racing oil technology based on the specifications required by specific teams and/or race applications.

Yes, they do make a quality oil. No, race car formulations are NOT the same. Shell sponsors Ferrari's F1 team. Is Shell's synthetic oil the same stuff you can get for Ferrari? No.

[w0ady]

Originally Posted by w0ady

notalk - im sure the mobil 1 infiniti used was 5w30 which like you said is class iii. ive seen the arguments before and shrugged it off because it always treated me well. however, like i said i blew my vq35 motor with 68k miles. there were no recent mods and i drove just as hard as i did for the past 50k miles which includes excessive downshifting. infiniti always did the oil changes at 6k miles so they had no one to blame there. they said it was the oil consumption issues seen on the 6mt due to my downshifting but had to write it off as an oil pump failure (which was fine) due to corporate refusing to back it.

i drive pretty hard and i have no problem spending more $ on oil changes if it means its safer for my car. what im looking for now is a reliable class iv oil that i can run with little interference from infiniti. they have no argument if i use a ester base full synthetic correct?

castrol syntec - heard good things about the german blend but its hard to find
motul 300v - sharifs happy with it so thats good for me
royal purple - never tried it, heard good things

these are just a couple i can think of offhand, any other suggestions/advice from anyone??

also i put a lot of miles on my car, about 20k/year, so i try to avoid excessive changes which is why i go 6k intervals. that should be fine right? maybe ill drop to 5k intervals and switch to synthetic at my first 5k...

bump...any advice here...

[fmrlegend]

Originally Posted by Graham

Keep us informed, I hate going in every 3500 for oil changes.

I totally feel the same way. But now I am using the synthetic blend, so I'm going for 5k miles now, although they say it will go up to 7k miles.

[Mike]

Guys, the ONLY way you can tell how long to go between oil changes is to have a UOA (Used Oil Analysis) done. Everyone's driving habits and conditions are different. Oil is a wear and tear item, just like tires and brakes, and individual results will vary.

Yes, it is MORE than likely that you can go beyond the standard factory 3750 mile oil change, even on just regular $1/qt oil.

However, to maintain your warranty, I'd suggest that you follow the factory schedule, just to be safe. Consider it cheap insurance.

[notalk]

Originally Posted by mike@riverside

Yes, they do make a quality oil. No, race car formulations are NOT the same. Shell sponsors Ferrari's F1 team. Is Shell's synthetic oil the same stuff you can get for Ferrari? No.

What Mobil is saying is that the IndyCar oil is formulated for the metals in the Honda IndyCar engine. All IndyCar teams using Mobil 1 use the same Mobil 1. Likewise, the NASCAR oil is formulated for the metals in the NASCAR engines. All NASCAR teams using Mobil 1 use the same Mobil 1. Mobil does not make special or specific oils for each team which uses their oils. The Mobil 1 you can buy in a store is fully compatible with either of these engines, and has been used by teams with no adverse effects.

P.S. I know you are an Infiniti salesman, but one of my clients happens to be a race team fielding both IndyCar and NASCAR cars. If you really have to be right about this, then you are correct. That won't, however, change the oil actually used in these race cars.

[notalk]

Originally Posted by w0ady

bump...any advice here...

Without seeing your blown engine and knowing what failed, it's pretty hard to determine the cause of the failure. I wonder if the failure was even lubrication caused.

Regarding Infiniti being happy with an ester based synthetic (and, btw, you can add RedLine to your list of ester based synthetics), I don't know how this might make Infiniti happy. Even though Nissan names its oil Ester oil, according to the European Patent Application, the oil does not contain any additional esters or greater quantities of esters. It appears the Ester oil does contain a carbon based additive which is supposed to reduce friction over the diamond like carbon coating on the valve stems, and, thus, improve fuel economy.